Margaret Hall

I have mentioned before that I suspected that Margaret Hall was not the daughter of our Robert and Elizabeth Hall. She was born in 1827, which would have made Elizabeth about 48 years old. While it is possible that Elizabeth had a child at that age, it is not probable. I have also seen other children, who were born around the same time as Margaret, who were born to a Robert and Elizabeth Hall. I decided to look for evidence to finally rule Margaret out.

                                                             Ancestry.com 1841 England Census

In the 1841 England census I was able to locate Margaret living in Liverpool. She was 14 years old, which would have been correct, and she was living with her parents, Robert and Elizabeth. She was the oldest listed child and her younger siblings were the same as those I had suspected to be her siblings. Her parents were listed as both being 40 years old.[1] That means they were born around 1801, which was after our Robert and Elizabeth were married and had had their first child, Thomas.

My suspicions were correct.

To be more certain of my findings I looked at the other Margaret Hall's listed from Liverpool:

First, there was a Margaret Hall born in 1830. She was living with people I would assume were her parents, James and Martha, and with her siblings. Her family was listed with others: the Bleasdales, Radcliffs, and one Hurley.
The next Margaret Hall was born about 1826. She was living with Elizabeth Beverly (65), Agnes Beverly (30), and John Beverly (8). You could say that perhaps her parents had died by this time, since I have not been able to locate burial records for Robert nor Elizabeth. But none of the people listed have names of family members, and it would be natural to assume she would have lived with a sibling if her parents had died.
Third, there was a Margaret Hall born in 1831. She was living with her parents, Robert and Margaret, and her siblings.

Here is the updated list of Robert and Elizabeth Miller Hall's children.

Thomas Hall (born 1801)
William Hall (born 1804) Listed as the 2nd child.
Mary Ann Hall (born 1806)
Joseph Hall (born 1808)
Robert Hall (born 1810)
Mary Jane Hall (born 1813)
Henry Hall (born 1815)
Thomas Hall (born 1816)
Robert Hall (born 1818)

*Jane Hall (1803) has been on the list. I have still never found a record for her. After finding William, whose record stated he was the 2nd child, I assume Jane is not part of this family.

[1] 1841 England Census, Ancestry.com, accessed 28 February 2013.

An Exciting Discovery.

While searching the OPC (Online Parish Clerks) for Robert Hall I ran into a christening record for another child for Robert and Elizabeth! William Hall was born 17 June 1804 and baptized 8 July 1804 at St. James, Toxteth, Lancashire, England.[1] Toxteth is a part of Liverpool. They were living on Bridgewater Street at the time, which is where they were living when the next child, Mary Ann,was born. The father's occupation is listed as a "warehouse man". Interesting. After finding this information on the OPC I went to Ancestry.com and was able to find an image for the original record and the bishop's transcript. I was able to confirm from the original record that William was, indeed, a child of our Robert and Elizabeth because the record mentioned that his mother was "Elizabeth formerly Mille". I am sure the "r" was just left off. The record also states that Robert and Elizabeth were married at "Trinity", which was the church our couple was married in.

Original Baptism Record: William Hall. Ancestry.com

Bishop's Transcript: William Hall's Baptism. Ancestry.com

One of the most interesting parts of the record is that it says William was the 2nd child of Robert and Elizabeth. From all of the information I have seen Jane Hall was supposedly their 2nd child. I have never been able to find a record for her. I have seen a Jane Hall born to other parents at that time. Either William was their 2nd child, period, or Jane was their second child and had died at that point and so William was the 2nd child living. What do you think?

[1] Church of England, St. James. 6 July 1804 baptism of William Hall. Online Parish Clerks.  accessed 8 March 2013.

An update on my search for Robert Hall's burial year:
I blogged last week about my search for Robert's burial year. I was able to go to the Family History Library in Salt Lake to search the records for the Holy Trinity in Liverpool Central. I did not have any success. I have since been searching the OPC more deeply and am paying attention to all Robert Halls. For all those that seem like possibilities I am using other resources, such as Ancestry.com and Familysearch.org, to discount them if I find more on their age or birth years. My next step is to search Findmypast to prove or disprove any others I have found.
I have read that Thomas Hall was 11 when his father died, and then he was apprenticed out. Thomas was born in September 1816. That would put the year around 1827-1828. I don't know where the person who wrote the account got their information. Did they have an actual source or are they assuming Thomas was 11 because they have seen Robert's burial year listed as 1828? I hope to find out.

Searching for Robert Hall's Burial Record. HELP!

This past Wednesday I had a research question presentation in one of my classes. I gave general information about what I knew about Robert Hall and his family and asked for advice on how to go about finding the identity of Robert's parents. I have been planning on searching for a will for Robert, but in order to be efficient with my research, I need to verify Robert's death/burial year. I have seen it listed as 1828 on many family websites, but I have never actually seen information for a source to an original record.

This is my call to all those who have information on this Robert Hall family from Liverpool. If you have any sources of information about Robert's death year, or any pertinent information on him or his family members, please let me know. I am looking for actual sources, not hearsay, family tradition or what you saw on the internet... unless, of course, it includes information to locate an actual record.

My next step is to go to the Family History Library in Salt Lake to look at grave records for the Holy Trinity church in the parish of Liverpool Central. As far as I can tell there are no burial records available online for the Holy Trinity in Liverpool. Hopefully the film # I have will help in my research.

Thank you!

Explanation of a Cordwainer

For this week's post I have added a short podcast to the right of my blog. It is a brief description of cordwainers and their origins. Feel free to listen if you are interested in learning more about the occupation!

Thomas Hall's Obituary

While doing a search on Google.com for "Thomas Hall" 1816 Liverpool, I ran into his obituary. It was printed in The Deseret Weekly in 1894. For those who are interested, here it is:

                                                                               THOMAS HALL

ST GEORGE, June 15, 1894.- Elder Thomas Hall, of St George, departed this life at 4:30 p.m. on the 8th of June of jaundice and other complicated ailments. He was born in Liverpool, England, September 1, 1816 and was the son of Robert Hall and Elizabeth Miller. He married Ann Hughes December 31, 1839 at Hawarden, N Wales; was baptized into the Church by Elder John Taylor at Liverpool, England, February 11, 1840 and left England in January, 1844, on board the ship Fanny, together with the Saints landing at New Orleans on the 6th of March, and arrived at Nauvoo April 11, 1844, on board the steamer Maid of Iowa.

 He arrived in Utah in 1852, and located in Salt Lake City for a few years. While there he acted as one of the special police force. In 1856 he was called on a mission to the Las Vegas gold mines, then in southern Utah and after being released from this mission and only being home for eight days he was called at the April conference 1857 on a mission to Canada and was a captain of ten in noted handcart company of who made the extremely arduous and fatiguing journey ot upwards of 1,000 miles to the Missouri river. After his return in 1858 to Salt Lake he moved to Millville, Cache county, April, 1860, where he remained until he was called on a mission to southern Utah in 1866, locating his home in St George where he remained until his death. He also filled a mission to Great Britain to obtain genealogical data for himself and wife, to which he was set apart by the late President John Taylor while in St George the last time. This mission he fulfilled with credit, preaching from time to time as opportunity offered. He was ordained a Seventy April, 184,5 in the Sixth at Nauvoo, which office he held until 25th of June, 1892, when he was ordained into the High Priests’ quorum.

 He was the father of 8 children, and leaves 40 grandchildren and 13 great-grandchildren. He died strong in faith, bearing his testimony to the truth of this work to the last. He was quite resigned and willing to be released from his sufferings.

The funeral services were held at the Tabernacle, conducted by George Jarvis of the First ward. The speakers, Elders William Fawcett, John Pymm, David H. Cannon and D. D. Mc Arthur, made appropriate remarks of comfort and consolation to the bereaved wife, two of his sons from Cache county, and all who were present.

- DAVID MILNE [1]

See the actual text here:

I was excited to find Thomas' obituary because it gave me some important information that I hadn't know before. I now know the name of the ship that Thomas and his family sailed on, the month of their departure, the day of their arrival, and which port they arrived in. I hope to be able to find the passengers list for them.

It also verifies that Thomas' parents were Robert Hall and Elizabeth Miller.

[1] The Church of Jesus Christ of Later-day Saints, The Deseret Weekly. Salt Lake City, Utah. The Deseret News Publishing Co. June, 1894. Vol. 49, p. 64. Google Books, accessed 9 February 2013.

Children of Robert and Elizabeth Hall: Updates and Thoughts

Since my first post listing the children of Robert Hall and Elizabeth Miller, I have made a new discovery and have had a few thoughts. First, I found the christening record of a child I hadn't listed! Her name was Mary Jane Hall, christened 19 January 2013 at St. Peters in Liverpool. Her parents are listed as Robert and Elizabeth Hall. Her father's occupation was a cordwainer and they were living on Ben Johnson Street. I know she belongs to the family because the christening record for her brother, Robert, also said they lived on Ben Johnson Street and his mother's maiden name was Miller.

I have been able to locate all of the christening/baptism records for the children, except Jane, who was supposedly born in 1803. Here is a list of the information from their records and the place I found them.

Thomas Hall: born: 18 Dec 1801, christened: 17 Jan 1802, father: Robert Hall, residence: Watkinson Street,  Cordwainer, mother: Elizabeth. 

FHL Film #0,093,833. St Nicholas, 

Jane Hall: 1803. Not yet located.

Mary Ann Hall: christened: 26 Nov 1806, father: Robert Hall, Bridgewater Street, Labourer, mother: Elizabeth Miller. 

FHL Film #0,093,833. St. Nicholas,

Joseph Hall: born: 4 Oct 1808, christened: 30 Oct 1808, father: Robert Hall, residence: Bolton Street, Labourer, mother: Elizabeth Miller. 

FHL Film #0,093,833. St. Nicholas, 

Robert Hall: born: 19 Dec 1810, christened: 6 Jan 1811, father: Robert "Hale", Labourer, Ben Johnson Street, mother: Elizabeth Miller.

FHL Film #0,093,873. St Peter, Vol. 2, #31

Mary Jane Hall: christened: 19 Jan 1813, parents: Robert and Elizabeth Hall, Ben Johnson Street, Cordasiner or Cordwainer.

FHL Film #0,093,873, St Peter, Vol. 4, #67

Henry Hall: christened: 13 Aug 1815, parents: Robert and Elizabeth Hall, Bridgewater Street, Labourer.

FHL Film #0,093,833. St. Nicholas, item 3, p. 12.

Thomas Hall: born: 1 Sep 1816, christened: 29 Dec 1816, parents: Robert and Elizabeth Hall, Bridgewater Street, Labourer.

FHL Film #0,093,874, St Peter, Liverpool, Vol. 4, p. 10, #74

Robert Hall: christened: 2 Nov 1818, parents: Robert and Elizabeth Hall, Bridgewater Street, Labourer.

FHL Film #0,093,874, St. Peter, Liverpool, Vol. 5, #1746.

*Margaret Hall: christened: 13 Nov, 1827, parents: Robert and Elizabeth Hall, George Street, Labourer.

FHL Film #0,093,877. St. Peter, Liverpool, Vol. 14. p. 40, #318.

I realized, while writing this post, that I didn't keep track of the volume numbers, page numbers, or the person's number for all of the records. I will track those down to add them here so those who are interested in looking at the records may find them more easily.

*I have my suspicions that Margaret is not part of this family. First, she was born in 1827, nine years after Robert. In 1827 Elizabeth would have been around 48. Second, I have found records for children of another set of parents whose names are Robert and Elizabeth Hall and whose records are for the same time period as Margaret and in the same parish of St. Peter. 

I have also seen it recorded that Robert Hall has children born in the 1790s. I doubt they are our Robert's children since he was married in 1800. The first child named was born in 1791, in which case Robert would have been only 16 years old. I have yet to look into these children to see if their parents are named Robert and Elizabeth Hall. If they are, then we may be dealing with three different families that overlap each other whose parents have the same names.